US drone in Iranian hands

[regi]

I waited some days to bring this up. But the more the story unfolds, the more interesting it gets.
The US first response was that the drone had malfunctioned and scattered in hundreds of pieces. And that nothing could be valuable for the Iranians.
But now this: it is unscratched! And the Iranians claim that they had been able to hack the controls !
Look at the nice plane at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16103467

Funny: on Fox News the vocabulary is quite different. And no word about the hacking!
As a general disbeliever of media reports, I think it is something similar that the US did with the B-29. Transfer of technology
Look, if you have a system that cannot be matched by the enemy, your military industry doesn't get any funding for new toys. So pass over some things to the enemy who can copy it, and your goverment panics and gives a lot of subsidies for new things.

[earthman]

From descriptions the RQ-170 doesn't really appear to be that advanced.

[regi]

From descriptions the RQ-170 doesn't really appear to be that advanced.

capable of flying unrefuelled for days instead of hours, altitude 50,000 ft, sensors and camera's all around, stealth capabilities, special engine, ...
Hm, not something to manufacture in a garden shed.
There is no problem for the Iranians to find out what it all is, from which materials it is made.
Example: you can find out in 1 second the chemical composition of the paint. But it doesn't mean you have that paint, or you have any idea how it is applied.
Other example: easy to find out if parts are made of Kevlar. But you don't have than immediatly the right manufacturing method. And I wish an Iranian succes to get hold on Kevlar cloth/fiber. From China? Yes, the colour will match, but that will be all.
Lenze systems, special lenze coatings, I am just brainstorming a bit if I would be given this toy in my hand with the order from an ayatollah to copy it.

[earthman]

From what I've read about it, it's designed a bit low-tech, because it was expected that one would fall into enemy hands sooner or later. No radar absorbing materials, stealthy design features are also quite limited, etc.. There are more interesting items lying around Area 51. I just saw on a show someone went to a supposedly cleaned-up crash site of uh I think an F-117, and still found a piece of titanium with radar absorbing paint on it, right in the middle of the desert.

[earthman]

Example: you can find out in 1 second the chemical composition of the paint. But it doesn't mean you have that paint, or you have any idea how it is applied.
Other example: easy to find out if parts are made of Kevlar. But you don't have than immediatly the right manufacturing method. And I wish an Iranian succes to get hold on Kevlar cloth/fiber. From China? Yes, the colour will match, but that will be all.

Oh just look at how Boeing is/was struggling with the composite 787 even though they knew quite well what they were doing. I don't think the main issue is that they would make their own, rather the issue is what they can learn about those things flying over their heads all the time and how to exploit that knowledge.

[regi]

The US wants its drone back. Strange after they stated that the drone had shattered in hundreds of pieces.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 64981.html

If Iran would return it, it might be in the same state as the EP-3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

[smokejumper]

Example: you can find out in 1 second the chemical composition of the paint. But it doesn't mean you have that paint, or you have any idea how it is applied.
Other example: easy to find out if parts are made of Kevlar. But you don't have than immediatly the right manufacturing method. And I wish an Iranian succes to get hold on Kevlar cloth/fiber. From China? Yes, the colour will match, but that will be all.

Oh just look at how Boeing is/was struggling with the composite 787 even though they knew quite well what they were doing. I don't think the main issue is that they would make their own, rather the issue is what they can learn about those things flying over their heads all the time and how to exploit that knowledge.

Boeing's struggles with the 787 largely center on their largescale outsourcing (not the overall design) of the manufacture. Poor workmanship, components not up to the design, etc. have all contributed.

[smokejumper]

We really don't know in what condition the RQ-170 is. Looking at the Iranian pictures, we can see that the bottom is shrouded and the right wing seems a little skewed (broken and patched back together?).

We also don't know whether the data was erased or not, not whether the programs in the on-board computers is readable or encrypted.

In all, we do know that the Iranians have the plane (admitted by the US), but don't know what they really have (and maybe they don't either).

[tsv]

Good luck to the Iranians, hope they reverse Engineer it and fly regular missions over Obama's Back Yard.

Seriously the thing will be quite useless to them but if it's capture annoys the US then it serves some purpose.

As a point of interest which UN resolution gives the US the right to fly over Iran's (or anybody else's) airspace and conduct spying missions?

I know this is not supposed to be a Political Forum but I do find it rather tiring to listen to Western leaders continually banging on about Iran striving to get Nukes all the time when us Western Countries have stacks of Nuclear Weapons.

[earthman]

As a point of interest which UN resolution gives the US the right to fly over Iran's (or anybody else's) airspace and conduct spying missions?

Now that's a totally hilarious question. Since when is spying subject to any foreign nation's approval? What is the name of the planet you are from again?

[regi]

which UN resolution gives the US the right to fly over Iran's (or anybody else's) airspace and conduct spying missions?

Reality is that those flights have always existed, almost from the beginning of military aviation.
It is not published because it is an embarrasment for the country that is overflown. Or they don't notice the spy planes, or they cannot do something about it.
The U-2 incident in 1960 is a very good example. The UN refused to condem espionage flights!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident
Very interesting to read the story : the background was very similar, to detect the nuclear capabilities of the USSR.
51 years later, same story, but this time without a pilot

[regi]

I know this is not supposed to be a Political Forum but I do find it rather tiring to listen to Western leaders continually banging on about Iran striving to get Nukes all the time when us Western Countries have stacks of Nuclear Weapons.

OK, it is off topic. Learning from history, the only way that the ayatolahs can keep power is to get the bomb. Kadhafi made the fatal mistake by giving up his nuclear program. We know the outcome.
Syria is trying, but not yet there.
And the worst of the Axis of Evil ( ) , North-Korea, has been left untouched.
Oh yes, who was removed from power on the basis of being close to have weapons of mass destruction - which never materialised? Saddam. Another guy who blamed himself in his foxhole that he had given up on those programs.
As far as I know, just 1 state gave up its bomb: South-Africa. We may assume that they wanted to prevent that left wing ANC would do something with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Afri ... estruction
Oh yeah, let us not forget that just 1 nation used atomic weapons untill today - with immediate result.
I am sure that if Iran would have the bomb, the region would stabilize. Than they would be a discussion partner on equal grounds.

[cnc]

Oh yeah, let us not forget that just 1 nation used atomic weapons untill today - with immediate result.

about every nation owning nukes already used them. i assume your aim is at the USA who's the only nation so far to have used it on its enemy in war.
people saying iran should own or have the right to own nukes are insane

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

imho nukes can only stabilise a region when inhabited by normal reasonable people,or better said,when these people has such leaders...
and then will they stay so during times evolve..?
in case of iran,i believe the most of the inhabitants are not bad but concerning their leaders i have serious doubts...
what if hitler had one,do you think churchill and hitler went to karlshorst or versailles for a treaty of peace!
with all fundamentalists you can't negotiate.. you can start so when there's a real democracy..
and i guess less nukes are better for peace,less nukes ,more talks and the best thing,a real democrazy,good social healthcare and a good economy are better solutions/weapons for demolish such crazy countries than...

i'm glad the usa had some that day and showed the world what the bomb really is.. it pity for all those peaceful japanese who died that second and years after.. but when the world didn't know what ,and the amounts of bombs where growing.. guess what the cuba crisis would have had as a result..whithout the first use the result would have been even worse..

the strange thing is we made these bombs,used and tested them and we live all togheter on this tiny spot in the universe.. maybe some alien attack will bring us all togheter once..

religion is good for those which believe but until now it brought nothing good to humanity except those architectural historic things..

better move this to the pub mod,nothing more really news.. excuse going off topic..
again politics sneaks in topics..

just my toughts..
cxb

[regi]

Oh yeah, let us not forget that just 1 nation used atomic weapons untill today - with immediate result.

people saying iran should own or have the right to own nukes are insane

I knew somebody would step in this trap. It is in fact the official view of some of the highest military commanders in...the USA !
Recorded. Just find it yourself. Just last month on CNN.
The idea behind it is that the moment that a nation has the bomb, they become responsable. History has proven this.
Secondly, the moment that a nation has the bomb, their enemy knows how to handle it. So no more sanctions, bombing of facilities , killing scientists. It is another ballgame. But containable. Example: the USSR suffered from international sanctions after their invasion of Afghanistan. ( the USA stopped the supply of weat to their biggest customer ) But they were not condemned of having the bomb.
Referring to fundamentalists: the communists have a lot of them, but never used them actively.
And religion? No, wrong assesment. Nor the Israelis used their nukes in time of war; nor did India against Pakistan. Or visa versa.
But again, too much off topic.
Let us return to the drone.
Let us start a poll: within how many months will Iran show a flying copy of the Sentinel?

[regi]

already criticism about handling the case: Republicans blame Obama that he asked the drone back.
( question: what should he have done? )
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16210858
or in Dutch : http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/buite ... keinsDebat

It is getting very grimm from a US point of view: officials contradict eachother or have no clue what the other might have said.
So the latest is now that the military had no idea that the drone was used by the CIA to spy on the nuclear program deep inside Iran.
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/1 ... ?hpt=hp_t2

personnal note : I don't know how many of you members actually watched the Iranian video release. But the more I look at it, the more I think we are witnessing one of the big scams of 2011. The drone doesn't look smooth and neat at all. It is ...just as you would have made it out of polystyrene foam.

[tsv]

As a point of interest which UN resolution gives the US the right to fly over Iran's (or anybody else's) airspace and conduct spying missions?

Now that's a totally hilarious question. Since when is spying subject to any foreign nation's approval? What is the name of the planet you are from again?

Well Obama asked for his Spy Plane back so you might ask the same question of him!

Then again the Chinese were requested to return the Prowler back after it collided with one of their Fighters and had to perform an emergency landing on Chinese Soil. Incredibly they eventually did so, albeit after giving themselves a few days to examine it. Perhaps the UN should mandate the return of errant Spy Planes!

[regi]

Then again the Chinese were requested to return the Prowler back after it collided with one of their Fighters and had to perform an emergency landing on Chinese Soil.

small correction: not a Prowler,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_G ... 6B_Prowler
But as I mentioned already in this subject an Orion , well ,the spy version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_incident

[regi]

The Iranians explained how they did it: they jammed the GPS system, knowing that a drone would go on auto pilot afterwards, and as such the drone landed in Iraq thinking it was Afghanistan.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/18 ... latestnews

[smokejumper]

which UN resolution gives the US the right to fly over Iran's (or anybody else's) airspace and conduct spying missions?

Reality is that those flights have always existed, almost from the beginning of military aviation.
It is not published because it is an embarrasment for the country that is overflown. Or they don't notice the spy planes, or they cannot do something about it.
The U-2 incident in 1960 is a very good example. The UN refused to condem espionage flights!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident
Very interesting to read the story : the background was very similar, to detect the nuclear capabilities of the USSR.
51 years later, same story, but this time without a pilot

It does not take a reconnaissance aircraft or satellite to conduct aerial surveillance (legal or illegal). Recall that in the late 1950's and 1the 1960's (and certainly later), Soviet aircraft carrying diplomats (or Nikita Khrushchev to the UN) were equipped with cameras. The planes just seemed to get lost and fly over unauthorized areas in the US. Ground examination of the planes as they were serviced and refueled revealed mysterious panels that could be opened in flight (camera ports). Not much the US could do about it, except complain.