Brussels Airlines Avro RJ100 flaps problems

[Boeing767copilot]

Brussels Airlines Avro RJ-100, registration OO-DWD performing flight SN-2319 from Brussels (Belgium) to Gothenburg (Sweden) with 94 passengers, aborted the approach to Gothenburg's Landvetter Airport when the flaps did not extend. All troubleshooting efforts could not resolve the problem, so that the crew needed to perform a flapless landing about 30 minutes later. The landing at high speed was safe.

The return flight the following morning (Nov 17th) is currently estimated to depart with a delay of more than 3 hours.

source: AV Herald

[Polaris]

Brussels Airlines Avro RJ-100, registration OO-DWD performing flight SN-2319 from Brussels (Belgium) to Gothenburg (Sweden) with 94 passengers, aborted the approach to Gothenburg's Landvetter Airport when the flaps did not extend. All troubleshooting efforts could not resolve the problem, so that the crew needed to perform a flapless landing about 30 minutes later. The landing at high speed was safe.

The return flight the following morning (Nov 17th) is currently estimated to depart with a delay of more than 3 hours.

source: AV Herald

It's not unusual to have flap problems on the Avro. It's a known issue.

The grease used to lubricate the flap system has the capability of absorbing alot of water.
If you get into colder, moister weather the grease becomes a bit thicker... This is picked up by the torque limiter and the flap computer quits immediately.

The grease should be checked regularly...

[Polaris]

Oh, and 94 passengers on a maximum of 97, that is a loadfactor of +- 97%.
Although average loadfactors will tell you a lot more, this is already a good step to break-even...

[regi]

Is there no other grease available?

[Desert Rat]

It's not unusual to have flap problems on the Avro. It's a known issue.

The grease used to lubricate the flap system has the capability of absorbing alot of water.
If you get into colder, moister weather the grease becomes a bit thicker... This is picked up by the torque limiter and the flap computer quits immediately.

The grease should be checked regularly...

This sounds a little bit unprofessional, apparently the servicing including the greasing is not a priority @ Brussels Airlines, I would not be surprised to have the authorities having a closer look on the maintenance team...

Lack of professionalism and seriousness leads to incident !!!

[Polaris]

Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Vienna on Nov 3rd 2010, flaps problem
Here is another one...

This sounds a little bit unprofessional, apparently the servicing including the greasing is not a priority @ Brussels Airlines, I would not be surprised to have the authorities having a closer look on the maintenance team...

Lack of professionalism and seriousness leads to incident !!!

Oh, and it's not a problem of bad maintenance. These are things that just can't be foreseen.
Maintenance at Brussels Airlines still is of the highest standards...

[RoMax]

Oh, and 94 passengers on a maximum of 97, that is a loadfactor of +- 97%.
Although average loadfactors will tell you a lot more, this is already a good step to break-even...

GOT is one of the routes wich will be upgraded in S11, from 3 daily RJ100 to 2 daily RJ100 and 1 daily B734. So I assume GOT is performing pretty good.

About the flap problems. It seems to be a typicall RJ problem indeed. I remember several incidents with SN RJ's wich had flap issues.

[RoMax]

This sounds a little bit unprofessional, apparently the servicing including the greasing is not a priority @ Brussels Airlines, I would not be surprised to have the authorities having a closer look on the maintenance team...

Lack of professionalism and seriousness leads to incident !!!

Oh, and it's not a problem of bad maintenance. These are things that just can't be foreseen.
Maintenance at Brussels Airlines still is of the highest standards...

Indeed. SN has a pretty old fleet, but their maintenance is excellent, otherwise you would hear much more about technical issues at SN.

[Desert Rat]

If you know that there's a grease issue with the flaps, I guess that by reducing the interval of the lubrication tasks or wipping the excess of grease while performing the greasing would help...

Now, if it is a design issue where there's water ingression in the flap gearboxes,torquelimiter or wing tip brake...this should be reported to the manufacturer(???) and dealt with.

Flaps 0 landing is quite a serious incident.

[tolipanebas]

If you know that there's a grease issue with the flaps, I guess that by reducing the interval of the lubrication tasks or wipping the excess of grease while performing the greasing would help...

It does, and it is done, yet no action will result in a guaranteed zero percent occurance rate....

If it is a design issue where there's water ingression in the flap gearboxes,torquelimiter or wing tip brake...this should be reported to the manufacturer(???) and dealt with.

BAe Systems knows about this as it's one of the weak spots of the 146, just as there are weak spots on the 737, the A320 or in fact any other plane flying. One of their recommendations is to grease regularly, which is done according to manufacturer's specifications. As said, nothing is infallible though.

Flaps 0 landing is quite a serious incident.

Actually, on the BAe146/RJ it's almost a non-event really, due to its design (huge huge wing, low approach speeds and lack of slats): in fact, a flapless landing on this plane feels almost like any normal landing on the 737, it's the normal landing on the Bae146/RJ which pilots must get used to when converting from another plane...

[Polaris]

Incident: Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Bologna on Nov 18th 2010, flaps problem

A Brussels Airlines Avro RJ-100, registration OO-DWD performing flight SN-3123 from Brussels (Belgium) to Bologna (Italy), was on approach to Bologna's runway 12 descending through 2500 feet AGL when the crew aborted the approach due to problems with the flaps. The airplane entered a holding at 4000 feet for about one hour before the crew commenced another approach to runway 12 resulting in a safe landing at a higher than normal speed.

The return flight was cancelled.

The incident aircraft had suffered from a similiar problem the day before, see: Incident: Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Gothenburg on Nov 16th 2010, flaps problem.

As we say in aviation, never two without three! It's just a sign that winter is coming. I'm pretty sure that a reminder will be sent to the flight crew and maintenance and that this type of 'incident' will reduce again...

Edit: Same aircraft!

[bxleu]

Problems have been reported on MSN.be:

Brussels airlines: deux atterrissages sans volets en deux semaines
Un avion de la compagnie aérienne belge Brussels Airlines a été contraint d'opérer un atterrissage sans volets mercredi vers 21h10 lors de son arrivée à l'aéroport international de Gothenburg en Suède après qu'un problème mécanique ait empêché leur sortie, ont indiqué les sites internet crash-aerien.areo, luchtzak.be et avherald.com. Un même incident a été répertorié le 3 novembre.

Full article in French:
http://actualite.fr.be.msn.com/actualit ... =155292440

[Desert Rat]

Belga:

Een toestel van de Belgische luchtvaartmaatschappij Brussels Airlines heeft gisteren om 21.10 uur een landing moeten maken op de luchthaven van Göteborg in Zweden zonder gebruik te kunnen maken van de flaps. Oorzaak was een mechanisch probleem. Dat meldden de websites crash-aerien.areo, luchtzak.be en avherald.com. Een gelijkaardig incident vond plaats op 3 november.

Een Avro RJ-100 vloog tussen Brussels Airport en de internationale luchthaven van Göteborg. Er waren 94 passagiers aan boord van vlucht SN-2319. Bij aankomst meldden de piloten een mechanisch probleem, waardoor de flaps op de vleugels niet konden gebruikt worden. Volgens de websites besloten ze om te landen zonder flaps na meerdere pogingen om het probleem te verhelpen.

De websites spreken van een gelijkaardig incident op 3 november op een vlucht van Brussels Airlines van Brussel naar Wenen. Website luchtzak.be heeft het ook over een Avro RJ-100. Met een half uur vertraging kon vlucht SN-2905 toch zonder problemen landen op de luchthaven van Oostenrijk.

Brussels Airlines was vanavond niet bereikbaar

Atterrissages sans volets : Brussels Airlines nuance

vendredi 19 novembre 2010, 00:22
Brussels Airlines a souhaité nuancer jeudi soir l’information sur deux atterrissages à problèmes survenus avec des appareils de type AVRO. « Les deux problèmes techniques rapportés par un site internet et repris par deux autres sites internet n’ont conduit à aucun moment à des problèmes en matière de sécurité », indique jeudi soir la compagnie aérienne Brussels Airlines dans un communiqué. « Un avion de type AVRO peut effectuer sans problème un atterrissage sans volets et les pilotes y sont également entraînés. Les deux atterrissages se sont dès lors déroulés sans problème. Les pilotes n’ont pas dû effectuer d’atterrissage d’urgence et les passagers n’ont à aucun moment été en danger. » Brussels Airlines étudie les deux incidents techniques et a indiqué qu’à l’heure actuelle aucun lien n’a été constaté entre les deux.

[cathay belgium]

GO LUCHTZAK

Wait until they discover more news from our website regarding FR,SN replacements,...

Regi, your chance for your one minute of fame internationally !!

Luchtzak, is this mentioning a previouw on the birthday of luchtzak.be which comes nearer...

Cx-B

[Desert Rat]

As we say in aviation, never two without three! It's just a sign that winter is coming. I'm pretty sure that a reminder will be sent to the flight crew and maintenance and that this type of 'incident' will reduce again...

Edit: Same aircraft!

This is a typical comment that could be use in a human factor training, where the fatality is invoked to excuse technical problem.

[Polaris]

As we say in aviation, never two without three! It's just a sign that winter is coming. I'm pretty sure that a reminder will be sent to the flight crew and maintenance and that this type of 'incident' will reduce again...

Edit: Same aircraft!

This is a typical comment that could be use in a human factor training, where the fatality is invoked to excuse technical problem.

I'm not sure what you want to say with the last part, but I want to clarify that I don't see this as a 'bagatel'. It is still a non-normal procedure that should be handled with care... The crew is trained to handle with these situations, and they did well...

Just to let you know, the Avro is fully equiped to handle this. Have you ever seen the brakes on this type of airplane? They are enormous! (because the Avro has no reverse as well) I don't know of any pilot who has ever dared to use max braking. If you do, then the other pilot one would be with his nose on the glareshield!

And you also have the airbrakes. They add drag, but most importantly, they cause the aircraft to be more controllable at low speeds...

[regi]

GO LUCHTZAK

Wait until they discover more news from our website regarding FR,SN replacements,...

Regi, your chance for your one minute of fame internationally !!

Luchtzak, is this mentioning a previouw on the birthday of luchtzak.be which comes nearer...

Cx-B

There is line of lawyers standing in front of my office. My security gave them formulars to fill in ( with obligatory questions ( such as "what is your favorite folk song?; how late do you want to receive your organic meal been served?; give your electronic XYZ bank account nr. on which we can pay all your claims ) and pick a number.
They are also given the phone number , but they have not figured out yet it is of the local kebab shop. Lawyers seem to be unable to speak Kurdish

[Desert Rat]

I don't know of any pilot who has ever dared to use max braking. If you do, then the other pilot one would be with his nose on the glareshield!

And you also have the airbrakes. They add drag, but most importantly, they cause the aircraft to be more controllable at low speeds...

Great, the more you talk, the more I feel you like you'r stuck in the mud...you might be a very" junior" engineer, or may be a very very "junior" F/O, but the things you write down are quite funny...

Why would you select Max brake when you land?

if you don't know it's quite OK, but please don't talk in the name of Brussels Airlines, because during my Sabena time we were a bit more professional!

Groetjes,

DR

[Stij]

@ Desert Rat,

I'm a senior pretty frequent flyer, no pilot or engineer! But when do you use Max Brake then?

And now we're on the subject of landings... why do Ryanair landings always seem to be faster then BruAir/JAF/LH... and why do they always slam it into the runway? (No, windspeed, winddirection or runway length is not at play). No I don't want to start another Ryanair bashing, its just a question, maybe there's a good reason.

Some extra's because it's Friday:

How do you know a guy is a pilot? Don's worry he'll tell you!
What's the difference between a train and an engineer? When a train derails, it stops!

Cheers mates,

Stij

[tolipanebas]

Actually Desert Rat, without wanting to get involved in your personal conflict with Polaris, he is right:

the Avro RJ is uniquely equipped with an incredible number of carbon disk brakes which allow it to stop on a very short distance: an RJ 100 can stop on less than 800m at max landing weight (over 40T)!
No other civil jet comes even close to that.

I don't know if you know what carbon brakes are?
It's what the Porsche and Ferrari drivers pay a fortune for, just to have a very thin set of....

Well, the RJ has a massive set with multiple disks on each main wheel, which probably cost the full list price of an entire Ferrari per landing gear and it was done because the AVRO needed to have STOL performance without use of any reverse thrust to remain within the very strict noise requirements of LCY, but it also helps it out in other situations, although if you'd make full use of the braking capacity on a normal landing, it would indeed scare quite a lot of people due to the incredible deceleration it would result in.

Now, do we dare to use it and if yes, when so? Sure, during a high speed aborted take-off for instance...