Future of Brussels Airlines

lumumba · Post by **lumumba** » 14 Oct 2007, 17:49

Hi brussels airlines.
Has a business man I'm agree with you .
But there is just one thing I don't like with B flex that you never have access to the lounges and this is something that I appreciate.
That's a mistake I thing.
Regards
Patrice

Tommypilot · Post by **Tommypilot** » 14 Oct 2007, 19:27

brussels airlines wrote:@Fly4Hours.be: Wrong. A businessman doesn't want to have a 5 stars meal, an extra stewardess, lounges. The average businessmen of today want to fly as fast as possible and as flexible as possible. A businessmen wants to arrive max. 1 hour before flight (b.flex allows 30 min.) no waiting at check-in, no waiting at security and direct boarding and de-boarding. he wants to have his bags directly so he can leave the airport as fast as he can. When he has a meating witch is during longer, he want to change his ticket, without costs. Maybe he wants a light meal on board, but not to much because most of them have to go eating with clients, collegues, bosses etc. Believe me, I know where I'm talking about. Ofcourse there will always be people who want that champagne, that extra stewardess, and free acces to lounge, but that passenger is not the average businessman of today. b.flex is an excellent product for businessman.

Have to agree fully with you!

Bflex is a good program for businessmen indeed, even our managing directors don't complain.
I, personally, have another opinion about Brussels Airlines but as long as my clients are satisfied, I am satisfied and for my work (Brussels Airlines had some problems in the beginning, which is normal) I may not complain at all about Brussels Airlines.
Why:

They improved their customer service.
They are improving their online features (check in, etc.) I even had a call from one of the Brussels Airlines staff saying that they want to improve stuff which are still not running quite well! Wow!!
We have nice prices with them on some of their bflex classes.
...

Way to go Brussels Airlines!

1V1 · Post by **1V1** » 14 Oct 2007, 20:20

If you think champagne does not matter, think twice. What do first and business pax want? Found some nice article.

Stop and think about this for a minute, dear reader : The world's third most profitable airline, and one of the world's largest and most rapidly growing airlines, is achieving these splendid results not by cutting back on service, but by offering better and more services at competitive fares. Bravo. Emirates deserves every penny of its profit and every ounce of its success - long may they continue to take the high road and plan to succeed through providing high quality rather than low cost services.

Complete text : http://www.thetravelinsider.info/airlin ... sclass.htm

brussels airlines · Post by **brussels airlines** » 14 Oct 2007, 20:50

Ofcourse they want good service, and they get good service with b.flex . For businessmen, believe me they need no champagne, they need flexibility and time-saving services. Ofcourse you allways have people who want champgane, but brussels airlines is going to make huge profits out of thos people, why do you think they changed strategy on EU market, because there are less and less pax.

It's a different story on long haul. Emirates IS NOT flying to 50+ regional destinations for busnissmen. They are flying on long haul, and then indeed, extra service and champagne matter. But hey, brussels airlines still has an excellent business class on long haul.

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 14 Oct 2007, 20:54

1V1 wrote:http://www.thetravelinsider.info/airlin ... sclass.htm

Comparing (SN)BA to Emirates is even more ridiculous than comparing it to Swiss.

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 14 Oct 2007, 21:06

I am travelling quite often between Dubai and Muscat with EK. You get full service including limo pick up, 1st class lounge, full bar with premium wines and champagne, 3 course meal ...and the flight is only 45 minutes !
shorter than BRU-Geneva

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 14 Oct 2007, 21:13

Ducatibiker wrote:I am travelling quite often between Dubai and Muscat with EK. You get full service including limo pick up, 1st class lounge, full bar with premium wines and champagne, 3 course meal ...and the flight is only 45 minutes !
shorter than BRU-Geneva

Lovely! Only I'm afraid it's not really healthy for your stomach to eat so much so fast - not to mention the drinks. Especially in a flying plane! And it really would be a shame to leave the vonkelwijn* untouched, wouldn't it?

Apart from that, when are EasyJet starting operations on this route? Isn't the time ripe for a low-cost carrier in the Gulf area? Or perhaps someone is going to say it's not the same market as Europe?

Come on guys, compare apples to apples!

*Vonkelwijn: South African litteral translation for sparkling wine. Many sparkling wines are produced round the world, several at least as good as the best champagnes, but the name champagne is reserved by EU bureaucracy to a very limited production. This has recently led to problems in new EU member states where (the local equivalent of) "champagne" is just the casual word for any sparkling wine; they had to change labels on all locally produced sparkling wines. All this off the record and off-topic, of course.

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 14 Oct 2007, 21:36

Ducatibiker wrote:I am travelling quite often between Dubai and Muscat with EK. You get full service including limo pick up, 1st class lounge, full bar with premium wines and champagne, 3 course meal ...and the flight is only 45 minutes !
shorter than BRU-Geneva

Good for you Ducatibiker, but I think this is absolutely not the reference in air travel. The majority of the pax world wide travel under 'normal conditions'. Even if SN would like to offer it, they don't have the money to do so, as most of the airlines, and most of these airlines are doing a nice job. If you need to be somewhere to do your job, you will travel whathever it takes ...

(e.g. I had to be in barcelona at a very specific point in time earlier this year. Everything was fully booked from BRU, so I had only full economy as an option on Iberia and had to buy my food myself. It costed us >720€. - But I took it since there was no other option. Needs are dictating the flights you take, not one or another status ...)

PS: I guess/hope you don't have to work after this 45' flight ...

Regards,
Danny

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 14 Oct 2007, 21:50

jan_olieslagers wrote:
1V1 wrote:http://www.thetravelinsider.info/airlin ... sclass.htm
Comparing (SN)BA to Emirates is even more ridiculous than comparing it to Swiss.

Indeed Jan. someone who wants to compare Emirates Business Class to Brussels Airlines b.flex Economy Class is not playing it fair at all. But then, we've seen more of these anti-Brussels Airlines posts.

1V1 · Post by **1V1** » 14 Oct 2007, 21:57

1. They fly stretches of 30min and lots of regional flights of 1 to 3 hours. They manage to get B777`s full on those short flights.
2. "Comparing (SN)BA to Emirates is even more ridiculous than comparing it to Swiss."
Well Jan I didn`t want to compare. I just wanted to show you how business pax think about an airline, what matters for them. I know they don`t like it when they get a lower service on a connection than the long haul flight they`re taking the connection for. At least the difference should not be too big. Did you even read the full story? You would be amazed how much the litlle details count for those people.
3. Dear brussels airlines you can discuss for days but what people want to pay for is good service (this includes all service from the moment you by a ticket till the moment you leave the dest. airport) and flexibility. You say you know what you`re talking about. Let me have some doubts. A lounge ....no need??? I wouldn`t think so. Free wireless, free drinks, free food and a place to relax or work while waiting. Most airlines will do everything to keep these first and business pax because they make your airline profitable. It seems to me there is not such a thing between LCC or full service.

Not a wrong word about Bru A, just adding some info about what business pax expect from an airline as there seemed to be some discussion about that.

greetz

1V1 · Post by **1V1** » 14 Oct 2007, 22:12

LX-LGX wrote:
jan_olieslagers wrote:
1V1 wrote:http://www.thetravelinsider.info/airlin ... sclass.htm
Comparing (SN)BA to Emirates is even more ridiculous than comparing it to Swiss.
Indeed Jan. someone who wants to compare Emirates Business Class to Brussels Airlines b.flex Economy Class is not playing it fair at all. But then, we've seen more of these anti-Brussels Airlines posts.

Well LX those pax exists but if you do not try to attract them they`re not on your flights are they? They fly worldwide, spend lots of money but of course they are very demanding. You can have a laugh with Ducatibiker but if you would really know something about aviation you would know those guys are making the difference. Nothing anti-Bru A at all.

1V1 · Post by **1V1** » 14 Oct 2007, 22:23

DannyVDB wrote:
Ducatibiker wrote:I am travelling quite often between Dubai and Muscat with EK. You get full service including limo pick up, 1st class lounge, full bar with premium wines and champagne, 3 course meal ...and the flight is only 45 minutes !
shorter than BRU-Geneva
Good for you Ducatibiker, but I think this is absolutely not the reference in air travel. The majority of the pax world wide travel under 'normal conditions'. Even if SN would like to offer it, they don't have the money to do so, as most of the airlines, and most of these airlines are doing a nice job. If you need to be somewhere to do your job, you will travel whathever it takes ...

Regards,
Danny

Yes Danny you and I we would but those 10% big spenders not. They will not travel whatever it takes. And they bring the money in.
What are normal conditions?

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 14 Oct 2007, 22:42

Free wireless, free drinks, free food and a place to relax or work while waiting. Most airlines will do everything to keep these first and business pax because they make your airline profitable. It seems to me there is not such a thing between LCC or full service.

Good point.

I remember the big words one of the majors once outed: "Business and First is what makes an airline profitable. Economy is there to cover the costs"

You guys just take a look at LH.
They sell their business seats starting from 1000€ minimum from Germany to BRU.
Yet, they have a good customer base, so this keeps people booking this product.

Businessmen pay the price and they don't care.

If you're a poor businessman, book real economy: B.light

Bflex is a good program for businessmen indeed, even our managing directors don't complain.

Working for a small company doesn t bring alot of advantages, does it?

B.easyness, the best value business class in Europe!

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 14 Oct 2007, 22:47

1V1 wrote:
DannyVDB wrote:
Ducatibiker wrote:I am travelling quite often between Dubai and Muscat with EK. You get full service including limo pick up, 1st class lounge, full bar with premium wines and champagne, 3 course meal ...and the flight is only 45 minutes !
shorter than BRU-Geneva
Good for you Ducatibiker, but I think this is absolutely not the reference in air travel. The majority of the pax world wide travel under 'normal conditions'. Even if SN would like to offer it, they don't have the money to do so, as most of the airlines, and most of these airlines are doing a nice job. If you need to be somewhere to do your job, you will travel whathever it takes ...

Regards,
Danny
Yes Danny you and I we would but those 10% big spenders not. They will not travel whatever it takes. And they bring the money in.
What are normal conditions?

It's quite the opposite, I travel often business, but also full fare economy, flex, ..., because I have to, not because I chose it particulary for getting a special service or something. I (often) need the felxibility in the first place.

Companies/International Organisations book for their personnel/experts/... whatever they can get to bring them to that place where they have to be at a certain point in time, to do their job, etc.

Believe, me, the companies/organisations themselves will NOT look whether or not you get access to the lounge (in most case you will get access anyway since there are a lot of possibilities in doing so, not only by paying a very expensive ticket! e.g. Priority Pass), will get champagne, have a charming stewardess or not, etc.

Some people working for those companies/organisations think they are important and absolutely need this luxury. Of course it is nice to be pampered, to have all the nice and fancy things, ... but it is not the crucial issue for traveling for the majority of the people (ref. interviews amongst 5000 clients from SNBA before deciding to offer light/flex). And indeed, there is a big difference between long-haul and short trips.

By the way, I even do not exclude they will offer in the future also a business products especially on those flights where (a lot of) people from JetAirways will continue their trip from India/US/Canada.

regards,
Danny

1V1 · Post by **1V1** » 14 Oct 2007, 23:09

brussels airlines wrote:Ofcourse they want good service, and they get good service with b.flex . For businessmen, believe me they need no champagne, they need flexibility and time-saving services. Ofcourse you allways have people who want champgane, but brussels airlines is going to make huge profits out of thos people, why do you think they changed strategy on EU market, because there are less and less pax.

It's a different story on long haul. Emirates IS NOT flying to 50+ regional destinations for busnissmen. They are flying on long haul, and then indeed, extra service and champagne matter. But hey, brussels airlines still has an excellent business class on long haul.

You turn it upside down. It`s not because an airline doesn`t attract those pax there are less of them. The growing airlines are those who offer this full service or those who clearly anounce they don`t (LCC). Their strategy is opposing and if you buy a product you want to know what it stands for don`t you?
"All that matters to most of us, as passengers, is a reliable airline offering quality service"

1V1 · Post by **1V1** » 14 Oct 2007, 23:34

DannyVDB wrote:
Believe, me, the companies/organisations themselves will NOT look whether or not you get access to the lounge (in most case you will get access anyway since there are a lot of possibilities in doing so, not only by paying a very expensive ticket! e.g. Priority Pass), will get champagne, have a charming stewardess or not, etc.

Some people working for those companies/organisations think they are important and absolutely need this luxury. Of course it is nice to be pampered, to have all the nice and fancy things, ... but it is not the crucial issue for traveling for the majority of the people (ref. interviews amongst 5000 clients from SNBA before deciding to offer light/flex). And indeed, there is a big difference between long-haul and short trips.

By the way, I even do not exclude they will offer in the future also a business products especially on those flights where (a lot of) people from JetAirways will continue their trip from India/US/Canada.

regards,
Danny

Well Danny I do not believe u for the simple reason most of the flights first and business are full. Full eco will give you a very small margin but every business and first seat you sell is the real profit. And we both know it`s not about the champgne or the lounges only, it`s about the whole package. The idea is that if one of your connection flights is lauzy that`s what you will remember of the airline no matter how nice the other flights were. I suppose that`s why JetAirways will push for business products.
Maybe you and I are not high enough in the picking order.

regards

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 15 Oct 2007, 00:34

Ok to open your eyes again, here is the SIA A380 pre-delivery video which has been found by an Airliners.net-member:

http://www.a380delivery.com/uploads/ass ... re/videos/

It's number 15 "SIA-cabin".

You might need the next player : http://www.download.com/1200-2018-51790 ... =pdl-redir

Real Player is ok as well.

That's how businessmen/women want to travel!

First class is a totaly new dimension and a total surprise!!

Tommypilot · Post by **Tommypilot** » 15 Oct 2007, 19:28

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:Working for a small company doesn t bring alot of advantages, does it?

Who said anything about working for a small company?

A company which employs more then 20.000 people isn't rather small...think before you react

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 15 Oct 2007, 20:59

How yes , I see, you work for the State

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 15 Oct 2007, 21:03

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote: "SIA-cabin"
...
That's how businessmen/women want to travel!

I haven't spoken with a SIA-rep yet about it, but my guess is that the passengers for these cabins will not your businessmen/women, but:

1. 70-plus Asian tourists, enough money on their bank account, first fysical complaints, going on an expensive trip Europe or the U.S., willing to spending an extra 50% of the tour trip to ultimate comfort for what they see as the only ennoying part of their trip: the flight.

2. honeymooners, who's trip is paid for by mammy/daddy (or friends);

3. 40-plus world travellers, familiar with the unconvenience of time differences and jetlags. Spending 5.000 euro p/p for a 10-day safari trip in Botswana or a transatlantic Cunard cruise or the Orient Express, ...

4. your businessmen/women (although: most business men travel single, and a double cabin at single use must be quite expensive, I guess).

5. upgradings / complementary / ID

- - -

back to the topic: I don't think there is a market for similar F-cabins on Brussels Airlines flights to/from Africa...