Brussels Airport is a disaster when it freezes and snows

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 20 Dec 2009, 12:29

stefanel wrote:
tolipanebas wrote:Brussels Airlines is now asking all passengers having the flexibility to change their travel plans to rebook their Sunday flight to a later SN flight without penalty and without having to pay a fare differential....
yeah right, by calling a highway robbery phone number, 1€ per minute or something! So lame! It should be a normal number when passengers are not at fault!

Care to provide us with the toll free phone number of FR's pax service centre, so those interested in it can rebook their flight from CRL without charge?

stefanel · Post by **stefanel** » 20 Dec 2009, 12:35

tolipanebas wrote:
stefanel wrote:
tolipanebas wrote:Brussels Airlines is now asking all passengers having the flexibility to change their travel plans to rebook their Sunday flight to a later SN flight without penalty and without having to pay a fare differential....
yeah right, by calling a highway robbery phone number, 1€ per minute or something! So lame! It should be a normal number when passengers are not at fault!
Care to provide us with the toll free phone number of FR's pax service centre, so those interested in it can rebook their flight from CRL without charge?

Mind you, you can rebook your flight on line which means FREE of charge comparing to a toll number.
Sorry but Ryanair is much more modern than many airlines, by focusing on the use of Internet.
Anyways, my attack was not against SN but against the expensive phone numbers when it's the airline that should contact your actually as they cancel their flight! You people are so susceptible about SN and so hateful towards FR...

Post by **sn26567** » 20 Dec 2009, 12:37

stefanel wrote:yeah right, by calling a highway robbery phone number, 1€ per minute or something! So lame! It should be a normal number when passengers are not at fault!

0902 51 600 : €0,750 per minute (+ call setup: €0,051). You can also try to use Internet, or to call the number tat international callers have to dial: +32 2 723 23 45.

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 20 Dec 2009, 12:50

stefanel wrote: Mind you, you can rebook your flight on line which means FREE of charge comparing to a toll number.
Sorry but Ryanair is much more modern than many airlines, by focusing on the use of Internet.
Anyways, my attack was not against SN but against the expensive phone numbers when it's the airline that should contact your actually as they cancel their flight! You people are so susceptible about SN and so hateful towards FR...

We're not hateful towards anybody, just pointing out that it may be far far cheaper to make a paying phone call to change your flight to any other date free of fee, than it is to log into a website and then having to pay hundreds of euro to book yourself another ticket on tomorrow's flight...

Besides, it's not about cancelled flights, it's about flights still operating but with huge delays!
SN actually gives its pax the opportunity to avoid having to sit around for hours in the terminal not knowing when they'll leave and to rebook to another date. Haven't seen FR do such a thing... they only rebook IF cancelled; if you don't want to loose an entire day without knowing if you'll ever leave, you have to buy another ticket, which will be quite expensive if done on short notice.

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 20 Dec 2009, 12:55

sn26567 wrote:
stefanel wrote:yeah right, by calling a highway robbery phone number, 1€ per minute or something! So lame! It should be a normal number when passengers are not at fault!
0902 51 600 : €0,750 per minute (+ call setup: €0,051). You can also try to use Internet, or to call the number international callers have to dial: +32 2 723 23 45.

Indeed, the last option is not widely advertised in Belgium, but it is available and it will cost you nothing but a normal call...

Besides, if you've booked your SN ticket through a travel office, they are in charge of re-arranging your flights: that's why you pay them for!

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 20 Dec 2009, 13:10

stefanel wrote:
sdbelgium wrote:in fact all Belgian airports are closed at this time! Incredible!

ROFL

RMK / At approx. 13h30 LMT BRU will (re-)open one RWY :clap:

teddybAIR · Post by **teddybAIR** » 20 Dec 2009, 13:13

I just checked the only valid source (AIP) on the clearing equipment at EBBR. The list is as follows:

> 5 sweeper-blowers (sweeping width: 3.3 m)
> 4 tractors equipped with sweeper-blower (sweeping width: 3.3 m)
> 2 thermo-blowers (working width: 20 m)
> 2 sprayers of de-icing liquids (capacity: 12 000 l, spraying width: 24 m)
> 1 sprayer of de-icing liquids (capacity: 3 000 l, spraying width: 12 m)
> 2 spreaders (capacity: 7 m³, spreading width: 6 to 24 m)
> 2 sprayers of de-icing liquids (capacity: 8 000 l, spraying width: 24 m)
> 3 sprayers of de-icing liquids (capacity: 6 000 l, spraying width: 12 m)
> 1 spreader (capacity: 4.5 m³, spreading width: 12 m)
> 1 spreader (capacity: 3.5 m³, spreading width: 10 m)
> 1 spreader (capacity: 1.2 m³, spreading width: 8 m)

Hope this clears

things out a little!
Best regards,
bAIR

stefanel · Post by **stefanel** » 20 Dec 2009, 13:28

Propwash wrote:
stefanel wrote:
sdbelgium wrote:in fact all Belgian airports are closed at this time! Incredible!
ROFL

RMK / At approx. 13h30 LMT BRU will (re-)open one RWY :clap:

It seems CRL is operating though in spite of what the media said earlier, the RTBF TV news said it's been open.
The website now works and all landings after 10am landed. However, the ATIS said closed at 11:30 when I checked... I don't really understand...

And it's snowing heavily in Brussels again!

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 20 Dec 2009, 13:31

SPL seems to have serious ..... (many in the hold) to.

See Casper

regi · Post by **regi** » 20 Dec 2009, 16:08

airplanes are made to fly through rain.

De-icing by chemicals seems so strange. Certainly now that we read that the special expensive fluid is drained in the sewer.

Why they don't simply go through a hot water shower? Ice gone, next. No chemicals, just hot water.
Should be usuable in conditions when the water on the plane doesn't freeze on immediately again. Installation should be quite easy as well.

Probably a typical reaction of a naive member...

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 20 Dec 2009, 16:19

Don't be confused here : there's a difference between de-icing ,which is nothing but the removal of snow from a plane (and which can occasionally be done with water-based fluids indeed) and anti-icing, which is used to protect the plane from ice building up during taxi and take-off, although both procedures are often referred to as de-icing indeed, since anti-icing is never done without first de-icing a plane...

Anti-icing is a much thorougher procedure than just de-icing a plane and for that, water is not an option because it would run into gaps and openings and freeze on once the plane climbs out and reaches its cruising altitude with temperatures below -50°C.

The last thing you want is a plane with frozen on rudders, flaps, slats, spoilers and ailerons, don't you?

That's why the harsher the conditions during taxi and take-off, the thicker the chemical fluid used to anti-ice... when it gets really bad, its almost a gel which is sprayed onto the plane!

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 20 Dec 2009, 17:07

teddybAIR wrote:I just checked the only valid source (AIP) on the clearing equipment at EBBR. The list is as follows:

> 5 sweeper-blowers (sweeping width: 3.3 m)
> 4 tractors equipped with sweeper-blower (sweeping width: 3.3 m)
> 2 thermo-blowers (working width: 20 m)
> 2 sprayers of de-icing liquids (capacity: 12 000 l, spraying width: 24 m)
> 1 sprayer of de-icing liquids (capacity: 3 000 l, spraying width: 12 m)
> 2 spreaders (capacity: 7 m³, spreading width: 6 to 24 m)
> 2 sprayers of de-icing liquids (capacity: 8 000 l, spraying width: 24 m)
> 3 sprayers of de-icing liquids (capacity: 6 000 l, spraying width: 12 m)
> 1 spreader (capacity: 4.5 m³, spreading width: 12 m)
> 1 spreader (capacity: 3.5 m³, spreading width: 10 m)
> 1 spreader (capacity: 1.2 m³, spreading width: 8 m)

Hope this clears things out a little!
Best regards,
bAIR

and BAC is working together with Agro Industries. This means that local farmers and their equipment can be used to make the runways snowfree.

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 20 Dec 2009, 17:19

Then it looks like the same problem as on the roads : you may have the best tools, if you give them to a monkey, he's not gonna do much with it. Bad management happens. In belgium, it happens everyday.

jake99 · Post by **jake99** » 20 Dec 2009, 18:15

Mavke wrote:Hi,

wel DHL hires a truck that sprays the platform with some chemical stuff, dont ask me what it is but it isnt freezing agian .... wel at least they did it last year , not seen it this year though ...

i de-ice planes for 5 years in row now , and all i can tell " its a big bizznes "
we were 2 days ago de-icing the OO-ASL and 2 bizjet operator came to us for help, they had to leave as soon as possible but their planes were covered with 7cm of snow .... no other company with able to do it ( flightcare or aviapartner ) we helped those guys out ! wel i can tel you they payed alot for or help !
we used 1900liters for 1 gulfstream !! ( 1900 liters x 4euro/liter = you cant coint eh ! )

ken

DHL did hire a tractor that sprays a product thats called "clearway" exept this year (DHL didn't want to pay the "high" cost to do this.
Ken who told you that the glycol cost 4 euro/liter your training dept?Untill last year DHL used Killfrost wich cost around 1 euro/liter.I cannot believe that FC or AP was unable to De-ice there aircraft.There must be another reason.

Depretair · Post by **Depretair** » 20 Dec 2009, 18:40

Following lesoir.be,

the airport will be open tonight for T/O & landings.
Many important delays today like the long haul
- of Jaf/fq for Zanzibar/Mombasa delayed untill tomorrow 7h30.
- of fq for Phuket delayed by 24 h.
Hope that it will be better and better in the next hours.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » 20 Dec 2009, 19:33

Minister of Transport Etienne Schouppe just gave BRU authorisation to keep the airport open all night

for T/O and landings. Hope everyone gets to his final destination.

And tmorrow the NIMBY (not in my backyard) neighbours will be angry again

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 21 Dec 2009, 08:48

More (light) snow is forecasted.

TAF EBBR 210530Z 2106/2212 19009KT 9999 FEW040
BECMG 2111/2113 3500 -SN BKN007
TEMPO 2113/2115 0800 SN SNRA BKN002
BECMG 2116/2118 7000 NSW BKN020 PROB30
TEMPO 2116/2201 -RASN
BECMG 2201/2203 1200 SN RASN BKN002
BECMG 2209/2212 3000 BR BKN005=

See also realtime satellite images (SAT24)

regi · Post by **regi** » 21 Dec 2009, 11:50

tolipanebas wrote:Don't be confused here : there's a difference between de-icing ,which is nothing but the removal of snow from a plane (and which can occasionally be done with water-based fluids indeed) and anti-icing, which is used to protect the plane from ice building up during taxi and take-off, although both procedures are often referred to as de-icing indeed, since anti-icing is never done without first de-icing a plane...

Anti-icing is a much thorougher procedure than just de-icing a plane and for that, water is not an option because it would run into gaps and openings and freeze on once the plane climbs out and reaches its cruising altitude with temperatures below -50°C.

The last thing you want is a plane with frozen on rudders, flaps, slats, spoilers and ailerons, don't you?

That's why the harsher the conditions during taxi and take-off, the thicker the chemical fluid used to anti-ice... when it gets really bad, its almost a gel which is sprayed onto the plane!

Thank you for the explanation.

Post by **sdbelgium** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:25

Cityjet and Jetairfly making up for the Eurostar cancellations, it seems. Cityjet announced yesterday to operate an extra flight ORY-LCY and ANR-LCY, while JAF will operate flight 9101/2 tonight (ETD 1830 LT) to Gatwick with OO-VAC (both ways fully booked).

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:46

We would need more than 60 flights each way per day to absorb the backlog ...
I'm surprised that ryanair didn't react.
For now, the only "cheap" solution would be to fly ryanair from london to anywhere in europe and then from anywhere to charleroi.

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