700 jobs threatened at Brussels Airlines?

[sean1982]

Sabena would not have survived in any circumstances. Te trend in the industry is consolidation and specialization.

Bru will always remain specialized. Following finnair's and LH's example, SN should subcontract all European flights that are unprofitable given sn's/Belgian cost of labor structure and keep the trunk/high yielding European routes as well Africa's and American routes where there is room for expansion.

JOb losses yes there would be. But it is much preferable to keep a good healthy airline than a sickly airline.

painfull but true

[Atlantis]

Yes Belgium is not Switserland, but for sure there is more potential in BRU than currently used. With the right connections, there are several other North-American (don't forget Canada..., I think there's more in it than 'just' Toronto and Montreal...Vancouver to name something) routes that could be made to a succes. The same goes for Africa.

And yes SN will not aim at Asia (or Latin-America to name something else) in 2013 or 2014. But I'm sure they'll look at some key Asian routes once they are better established in North-America and enforced their position in Africa. For now they can rely on partners like Jet Airways (but for how much longer?), Thai, Hainan, and hopefully soon ANA and maybe eventually SQ. But just like with the US and more and more with YUL, I'm sure there will come a time that SN is tired of fully relying on their partners for certain huge Asian cities. But ok, now we are talking about mid to long term.

BRU is still indeed underused when we speak about long haul. In 2007 (if I still remember good) there was a detailed plan on focus destinations between 2008 and 2011. Let me make it clear that about Brussels Airlines no word was said in this plan because there was no scope. In meantime Jet Airways was settled even as Hainan. Thai Airways was the latest one of this "wish list" of Brussels Airport. ANA is still a big question mark and wish was to create a "small hub" of American Airlines here at BRU. But we all knew what happend and they invested more in LHR.
Vancouver is still on the wish list (or Air Canada or Air Transat). South African Airlines is now also in the picture for a late evening flight.

Not everything of this whish list was reached. We can even said, more was not reached then reached. But aviation has to cope with so many things that it is difficult to focus on the very long future. Now with the European crisis, fuel prices, etc etc, it is even more the question if you can attract now more carriers.

But this means not that you have to wait. Two new WB-gates will be finised soon at the B-concours, two new WB-gates will be build at the end of the A-concours and in 2014 they ware going to start with the extention of the A-concourse in West direction. Both Brussels Airport as Brussels Airlines has to invest for the future.

[kiwiandrew]

BRU is still indeed underused when we speak about long haul......South African Airlines is now also in the picture for a late evening flight.

Considering how SA have kept cutting back their European network I would be very surprised to see them in BRU anytime soon. IIRC their European service has shrunk to LHR, FRA and MUC.

[sn26567]

if sabena would have joined an alliance ...

Sabena WAS in an alliance: Qualiflyer, together with Swissair, Austrian, LOT, TAP, Turkish and Delta.

[cnc]

if sabena would have joined an alliance ...

Sabena WAS in an alliance: Qualiflyer, together with Swissair, Austrian, LOT, TAP, Turkish and Delta.

TK and DL? i remember AA was a partner of the group but that was it.
furthermore if you consider qualiflyer as an alliance then the LH group is an alliance too.
90% of the group members where in there because SR had a stake in them.

[crlhub]

JNB would be a big success as South Africa has the second Belgian expats community with YUL.There is a good demand for business class as the flight is quiet long.And potential connections with Congo and other afi countries.Angola is booming, a lot of Portuguese citizens emmigrate back down there as the unemployment in Portugal is now above 20%.
Why not try Brazil?Sabena tried GRU but too late and with only two frequencies, but the economic situation of Brazil at that very time was ugly.Now the country is booming.200 millions inhabitants and the return of the middle class (once destroyed by hyperinflation).Though more Brazilians are now able to pay a visit to Europe.And do not forget that Brazil will make the 'buzz' with the soccer world cup in 2014 and the Games in Rio in 2016.Solvay has big factories there.One Brazilian mining multinational has a head office in the Benelux.More and more Brazilian work and live in Brussels.A few Brazilian banks in Luxembourg as well.About LUX,why SN does not try to recatch those very high yields pax for their long haul network, even more if they develop North America.There is not a single long haul flight from LUX.They all travel via PAR or FRA.It is a small but very healthy market(banking industry,international offices,some EU offices as well).
Otherwise for North America, YUL is already served by AC and Transat,no need for more.Same goes for YYZ with Jet.Vancouver is too far,there is no market for BRU(only ams/lon/fra).In the US, Boston would be my first choice.Good potential for business class, Sabena was very often full on that route.Little competition.
Forget Washington,United being at home and very strong,they have all the big contracts(nato etc).
Maybe at a later stage San Francisco,there is less competiton than for LAX.SFO has the same High Tech profile as BOS, and a good tourism and leisure potential.

[RoMax]

TK and DL? i remember AA was a partner of the group but that was it.

Don't know about TK, but DL was a partner, later it became AA. Until somewhere in the '90's, Delta had a atlantic joint-venture (an early form of the current transatlantic JV's within Star, Skyteam and Oneworld) with Sabena/Swissair and Austrian. Eventually they steped out of this and decided to work with Air France. Austrian Airlines as a result decided to go for Star Alliance. Swissair/Sabena went through with American.
The coorperation with Delta was also the reason SN (as Sabena) once served Cincinnati and later they served Dallas because of AA.

[cnc]

ah thx.
looks like i joined sabena after the delta partner times or i somehow forgot all about it

[teddybAIR]

I fully agree with the statement that Brussels Airlines lacks a clear positioning in the airline market. What is the reason you would fly them? Is there a consistent answer to this question? For Ryanair there is: they are the cheapest! I'm not saying Brussels Airlines should become the cheapest, but they should claim a specific positioning that is unique to them! Something customers feel comfortable about and that makes them able to say "I chose Brussels Airlines because..."
Today my feeling is that passengers fly Brussels Airlines due to a streak of luck: they just flew at the most convenient time for a particular customer at a particular location.
Is b.flex really the most flexible offering out their? Is b.light the lightest you can get? No...and that is where they fail to make money. By offering both products in one airframe, they create the illusion not to let any customers down. But it really is a clear illustration of the lack of strategy. And that translates in an ambiguous positioning.
As others mentionned before me: today Brussels Airlines is in survival mode with a business model that has proven ineffective at yielding profit. If you ask me, the painful truth is that they will need to do first things first:
1) rationalize and become self-sufficient, which will hurt!
2) plan for the future and convince a potential investor
3) claim a clear position in the market that is unique to Brussels Airlines

Without the above, it is merely waiting until the next filing for chapter 11 as Brussels Airlines is gradually but certainly burning through all her equity.

Let's hope for the best.

[regi]

JNB would be a big success as South Africa has the second Belgian expats community with YUL.There is a good demand for business class as the flight is quiet long.And potential connections with Congo and other afi countries.Angola is booming, a lot of Portuguese citizens emmigrate back down there as the unemployment in Portugal is now above 20%.

I suggested this some years ago as well, but was immediately confronted with the figures from the past , which were just ...negative.

There are several reasons.
South-Africa depends for a certain amount on tourism. Which has 2 seasons. High season is during European winter time. When most people work and have no time to go on long holidays. But, being said, high season is really high in SA. Prices of hotels quadrupple. And flights are expensive. But what will you do with your infrastructure during low season?
It is indeed a long flight, which needs long haulers. The amount of long distance airplanes in the fleet of SNBA is pretty small. You need to perform enough flights a week to cover tourism as business passengers as well.
SA has also another speciality: Cape Town. An airline would depend on tourism for a reasonal amount. But most tourists visit Cape Town as well. So you would have to fly to Cape Town , or work with a local partner. Many airlines do this , but it is not ideal.
A triangular flight could be a solution.

And so we come to a comparable ex Sabena/Sobelair destination: Bangkok and Phuket. A bit business. Family visits . And tourism depending on unequally spreaded high & low season. Trying to make it work by triangular flights as well.
It all sounds a bit déjà vu.

Competition:
JNB has a lot of competition.
And we see now that some of the same competitors on the Bangkok stretch do also compete to JNB : Qatar, Emirates, Etihad, Egypt Air...except of Emirates, they all do Brussels as well.

Traditional carrier: BA.
there goes your business class market: BA offers World travellers Plus ( upgraded economy for +- 350 € extra ) to these destinations on a daily base.

Only positive point: it would be the only non-stop connection between Belgium and South-Africa.

Almost forgot this one: airplanes flying to JNB have to keep in mind the height of the airport: 1753 meters. Important for MTO and precious cargo.
Conclusion: SNBA would need at least 2 extra long haulers, able to perfom at least 3 flights a week to JNB / CPT , airplanes that can store enough passengers with their luggage to have enough capacity for the winter season + have cargo capability.
And we look at this at the moment that it doesn't go well with SNBA. Remember the title of this topic?
No personal critic: I made te same remark some years ago.

[RoMax]

Not everything of this whish list was reached. We can even said, more was not reached then reached. But aviation has to cope with so many things that it is difficult to focus on the very long future. Now with the European crisis, fuel prices, etc etc, it is even more the question if you can attract now more carriers.

At least Brussels Airport can say they do a great job in marketing their airport.

BRUSSELS AIRPORT SECURES WORLD ROUTES AIRPORT MARKETING AWARD
These awards are chosen by a jury existing out of respectable people from Emirates, easyJet, Etihad, British Airways, GOL, AOG (as only non-airline in the jury), Malaysia and Southwest.

BRU came out as the winner in the European category and the overall winner as well.

Btw, was suprised that AMS didn't even reached the "Highly commended" rating in the European category. I expected better from AMS that usually scores well in awards.

[RoMax]

This will not help:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/ ... 7L20121004

Eyes Aer Lingus Brussels base to serve non-Irish routes

"Instead of having a Belfast base, and a Gatwick base, they should have a Brussels base" to serve non-Irish routes, he said of Aer Lingus.

Aer Lingus, which only operates from Ireland and Northern Ireland, could then compete with Brussels Airlines out of Brussels National airport and possibly with easyJet in destinations like Amsterdam.

[airazurxtror]

If the takeover succeeds, Ryanair would maintain Aer Lingus' branding and position it midway between easyJet and Ryanair, cutting the average fare to 65 euros from 85 euros at present, compared with 45 euros at Ryanair, McNamara said.

Interesting !
65 - 45 = 20 euros : that makes up for the cost of going to CRL.

[cnc]

If the takeover succeeds, Ryanair would maintain Aer Lingus' branding and position it midway between easyJet and Ryanair, cutting the average fare to 65 euros from 85 euros at present, compared with 45 euros at Ryanair, McNamara said.

Interesting !
65 - 45 = 20 euros : that makes up for the cost of going to CRL.

plane bullshit if you think a bit more about it.
BRU itself will cost them 20 euro per pax more, then there's ATC, ground handling that will cost them atleast 1000 euro per rotation, no tax money to operate from BRU.
FR's model is already heavy loss making on an operational level, EI would have an even bigger operational loss per flight and less to none subsidies

[airazurxtror]

plane bullshit if you think a bit more about it.

Let's just wait and see ...

[sn26567]

According to L'Echo, there will be no Renault procedure or collective redundancies at Brussels Airlines, but efforts to improve productivity and more flexibility to keep jobs and save the airline facing financial difficulties. But management will probably keep the pressure about staff redundancies if the plan presented (generalization of part-time work, etc..) is not accepted.

An extraordinary staff council will be held on Monday at 13:30. Unions will be informed of the details of the new plan. "We hope a plan that ensures the future of Brussels Airlines," said a trade unionist.

Brussels Airlines has cash problems. The airline ended the year 2011 with a loss of over 80 million and is expected to finish 2012 with a similar loss. The Lufthansa Group holds 45% of its capital and is willing to give financial support, but with the requirement to implement a new plan. It will not exercise this year its option to buy the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines. The German airline group could do it in 2013.

After L'Echo

[MD-11forever]

Apparently no lay-offs at Brussels Airlines, but some pilots will have to work part-time.

http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 5-3085.art
http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... 8_00326304

[jal]

I just read in the "La Dernière Heure" that Brussels Airlines made a loss of 82 million euro in 2011.
I sincerely hope they won't follow the errors politicians made with Sabena.

[earthman]

That's science at work. You have to repeat the same errors again, just to make sure that the outcome was not accidental.

[RoMax]

I just read in the "La Dernière Heure" that Brussels Airlines made a loss of 82 million euro in 2011.
I sincerely hope they won't follow the errors politicians made with Sabena.

The current problems are not completely the fault of the current management and the current strategy. The roots of the current problems were already made years ago. Everyone said SN was doing good because they had small profits...but they were not doing good, they were not investing, they were not growing in the markets where they had to grow (long haul), they wasted a lot of time and money with the Virgin merger, ... The result is that they ended up with a European network that's too large, a long haul network with a lot of potential, but too small and an outdated fleet (it improved already in the latest 2 years, but the investments during these 2 years were extremely heavy for an airline like SN, these investments should have been made years ago when the economy was still growing and SN was doing quite OK on the financial side).

Entering an economical crisis with an outdated fleet (while fuel prices are still extremely high, for a large part due to the Euro), a bad network strategy, ... is a quite f*cked up situation that has to be handled now and that's not an easy task.