Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

[sn47031]

Dear Mr O'Learly Friend,

Indeed you didn't mention NBO or BJM but you compared fares

qte
you
Indeed
Just a purely hypothetical excercise:

BCN-JFK: booked on the SN website: 3488€ return

Sames dates and flight times:
BCN - BRU return on FR with 20kg luggage and reserved seat: 190€
BRU - JFK return on SN: 854€
Together: 1044€

unqte

What do you want to proove with your above statement???

I can book a flight from BCN-BRU-JFK RT on SN out 01/04 and return 07/04 for 621.67€.

As you are an airline specialist, you should know that fares are based on different rules and conditions for i.e availabilty in the different Y-classes. I guess FR is using the same system. The less availabilty the higher the rate.

[Sean_DM]

Did I say I had a problem with that? I just mentioned that under certain circumstances FR might feed pax into the SN LH because it's way cheaper. Get off your high horse and read everything properly first.

[FlightMate]

Good for SN if they are on track to profitability. But are these cut cost sustainable?

I mean, flexibility, salary cost, etc... employees care about their job, but if SN eventually makes money, employees will want to have their advantages back. Or they will strike, or leave.
So, beyond 2015, black numbers but unhappy employees?

[RoMax]

I mean, flexibility, salary cost, etc... employees care about their job, but if SN eventually makes money, employees will want to have their advantages back. Or they will strike, or leave.
So, beyond 2015, black numbers but unhappy employees?

Not all savings are made from the employees and most of these savings are only temporary, a very significant part of Beyond 2012-2013 was about structural cost savings that not directly influence the employees.

[sn47031]

Did I say I had a problem with that? I just mentioned that under certain circumstances FR might feed pax into the SN LH because it's way cheaper. Get off your high horse and read everything properly first.

Perhaps I am sitting on an elefant but I hope you have a FR contract under Belgian social law and not bypassed through Irish law if you know what I mean.

[b-west]

Honestly... this childish bickering and wannabe witty remarks are pretty sad and pointless. And don't give me "but he started it..." You're all adults. Try to behave like it.

[sn47031]

B-west I follow you completely.

[RoMax]

SN signed a contract with MTN in Cameroon to make it possible for MTN Mobile Money users to pay through their mobile phone. It's the first airline to offer this service in Cameroon.
http://www.cameroononline.org/2014/03/1 ... ile-money/

[RoMax]

I just read this tweet of airlineroute.net

brussels airlines plans to codeshare on UNITED Express flights, operated by GoJet, Mesa, Shuttle America and Skywest Airlines

Someone with more information?

[Boeing767copilot]

http://www.lecho.be/actualite/economie_ ... .art?ckc=1


http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/a ... hter.dhtml

[airazurxtror]

I can't read "L'Echo", but the summing-up in HLN tells it all :

Volgens De Tijd heeft de Inspectie van Financiën echter bedenkingen bij de manier waarop de miljoenen uitgedeeld zouden worden. Bovendien is de kans reëel dat de Europese Commissie bezwaren heeft. In dat geval zouden de maatschappijen het geld toch moeten terugstorten.

http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... e038bd1858

Brussels Airlines a déjà inscrit 15 millions d'euros à recevoir et à comptabiliser dans son bilan 2013. Or l'arrêté royal n'est toujours pas paru au Moniteur. L'annonce en février de la Commission européenne de sa volonté d'enquêter sur ce mécanisme d'aide publique n'est sans doute pas étrangère à ce délai. Un subside qui est permis par la Commission et qui est pratiqué sur d'autres aéroports européens et même en Wallonie.
Le projet suscite en outre la réticence de l'Inspection des Finances et du Service de Régulation de l'Aéroport de Bruxelles-National, écrit "L'Echo".


That was obvious, from the start of the story.
The real emergency was to stem, at least in appearance,the losses of Brussels Airlines.
Without those subsidies, the loss will be near 40M euros instead of 22 ...

[ptr]

Hi,

According to deredactie.be the necessary article will be published tomorrow

http://www.deredactie.be/permalink/1.1946803

[teddybAIR]

I don't see how Europe will ever agree to this subsidy since it is even publicly stated that the purpose of the measure is to counter competition from LCC's. If I were Brussels Airlines, Jetairfly or Thomas Cook I would hope for the best & prepare for the worst because chances in my opinion are very slim that they will be able to hold on to their money.

[cnc]

as far as i know they just lower the regular belgian tax rate for the belgian airlines to that of ireland which results in those returning euro's. if the EU will deny this they will be forced to start leveling those fields in all of the EU

[RoMax]

If the EU is against this subsidy for BRU(SN/HQ/JAF), ok fine, but than they should also have a closer look at CRL which is long pas the stage of a small regional airport requiring tens of millions per year to survive.

Something else, in 2013 Brussels Airlines was the second largest airline in Cameroon with a market share of 14%. Air France leads the market with a market share of 22% and CamairCo follows SN with a share of 11%. I believe CamairCo was still larger than SN in 2012. SN showed a significant growth of 18% on their Douala/Yaounde flights compared to a slight (3%) decrease in passengers transported by Air France despite an increase in frequency. Though it can be expected AF will strengthen its position again in 2014 as it started another capacity increase to both Yaounde and Douala at the end of 2013, which will continue in 2014.
http://www.investiraucameroun.com/trans ... is-en-2013

[teddybAIR]

as far as i know they just lower the regular belgian tax rate for the belgian airlines to that of ireland which results in those returning euro's. if the EU will deny this they will be forced to start leveling those fields in all of the EU

That's not what the articles suggest. The press articles seem to hint that the governement funds part of the security necessary at brussels airport which airlines using brussels airport pay.

[sean1982]

Which is fine, as long as you do it for everyone (like in CRL) and not just for the belgian airlines, then it becomes anti-competitive.

[Flanker2]

I understand that aviation gets the special treatment due to the labor involved.
However, aviation is not the only trade where this is a problem.

All Belgian industries are under pressure.
East European workers bidding on construction, marketing and business projects.
Chinese companies in all major industries.

I don't think that this measure will pass EU scrutiny.

Let's be honest with ourselves, FR flies full B738's in and out of CRL at low fares, while SN is flying around half-empty aircraft at expensive fares, mostly for the aristocrats and business people among us.
Since the government is supposed to represent the interest of the people, ie a large middle class, it's not in the people's interest to chase FR out of Belgium, nor to support SN.

I would approve a support to SN if they became more middle-class oriented. I hope that they expand more on their family fares and offer more low fares to typical holiday destinations.

SN needs money, but I think that it's time that LH fork it out and freaking invest in this airline. The government has given enough cadeau's, SN can make plenty of money if they invest in more longhaul and more regional connections and it's LH's responsibility to make that money.
Otherwise it will be the same old story again of government supporting and supporting until the Germans decide to pack everything and ship it to Germany.

Option exercise season is ending in a week...

[teddybAIR]

Article on Flightlevel mentioning that Lufthansa does not plan to buy the remaining 55% stake in brussels airlines in FY2014

[b720]

That's a heck number of aristocrats and Business people!!! In the millions!! Flanker, watch what you say..you don't make sense!
at 99 EU intra europe flights (if u book in advance) .. b.pas (they're still selling btw) if you happen to work in BRU and your family lives elsewhere.. and I can go on and on... The absolute majority of SN PAX flies b.light.
Neither Aristocrats, nor Business. The only thing the government should do is lower taxes, and social security contributions. Add to that the amount of tax people pay here (the highest in the world for single people with a job, earning an average salary).. SN will either have to move elsewhere, or go under.. It can not compete with the ME3, TK, and the likes.. let alone Irish based European airlines.. LH doesn't have the magic wand, for those counting on LH to save the day, at the end of the day?