Charleroi Brussels South closed by fog

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 24 Dec 2006, 12:13

24 Dec - CRL is closed today, for a totally different reason: fog

source: Flemish TV

http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_mast ... ndex.shtml

Cartman · Post by **Cartman** » 24 Dec 2006, 15:48

No hotel accomodation, no meal vouchers, no re-routing. You just get the 5€ back that you payed for your away ticket. Merry FR-xmas with that.

Need to say more?

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 24 Dec 2006, 16:16

That's when you want to fly very cheap. And CRL is one of the worst ever planned airport, build in a valley.

Last year we had the same topic on this forum. I think we lost then how many times CRL was closed due to fog.

I don't understand why airlines are chose that airport to fly too?????

stevie · Post by **stevie** » 24 Dec 2006, 16:23

Maybe it is cheaper for the airline than BRU or Liege ...

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 24 Dec 2006, 17:15

Many flights are diverted to Liege, from charleroi and maastricht/aachen.
No problem for LGG which has a very good infrastructure.

This happens every winter since ever

Charleroi has a plan to increase the lenth of the track and add ILS cat III though.

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 24 Dec 2006, 17:26

Atlantis, you are making yourself the professional aviation expert in some of the topics posted in this forum. Then it surprises me that you don't know why airlines like to fly to CRL rather than "world famous" BRU. Don't you have a professional answer to that one?
Oh and by the way, I know in wich context your question may be placed, yes, but still, boy...

I think it's better not to react on the trash trown against Ryanair. Once more: if you don't like them, don't go with them and leave them alone. It's clearly stated and well known that what you pay is what you get with Ryanair.

Some members will never learn...

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 24 Dec 2006, 17:29

The real question is :

why dont they use Liège airport all the time instead of canceling the flights ... ?

There were more than 12 flights diverted since yesterday, why not all of them ?

I'm sure nobody would complain ... or at least a lot less.

(LGG is only 45 min away by bus from CRL)

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 24 Dec 2006, 17:50

this evening again the same story:
- many FR diverted to LGG
- EZY Berlin/Maastricht diverted to LGG

The REAL question is effectively, like already said before:
why? why don't they definetely fly to LGG:

-ILS catIII, 24h/7d, 3200m rwy (soon extended to 3700)
- chep parking for cars, better railway connections (Highspeed Brussels -Cologne + many other connexions), highways in all directions
- own catchment area (in 50km around: 1.25 Mio)

very, very strange, indeed

Cartman · Post by **Cartman** » 24 Dec 2006, 18:05

Jense wrote:Atlantis, you are making yourself the professional aviation expert in some of the topics posted in this forum. Then it surprises me that you don't know why airlines like to fly to CRL rather than "world famous" BRU. Don't you have a professional answer to that one?
Oh and by the way, I know in wich context your question may be placed, yes, but still, boy...

Duh, everybody knows that Ryanair flies to CRL because thanks to some Walloon government support (with Flemish money I tell you

) they pay few landing rights. We all know that Jense...

But if you see every year that you experience fog problems at CRL, you must admit that it will cost you money too, and a lot of unhappy passengers who may never fly FR again. LGG isn't a lot more expensive for landing rights I guess, so why not making a hub there? Might attract a new public from The Netherlands and Germay as well.

Last year when I traveled from CRL to SNN, I departed by train from QHA, via LGG to CRL. No fog, nowhere, not even in Charleroi-ville. At 100 meters from the airport we were welcomed by a wall of fog, and the CRL runway was covered with a thick white blanket. All flights cancelled. It looked like the airport was the only place in Belgium where the weather didn't allow airtraffic.

Whether you like Ryanair or not, you must admit that an airport without Cat III in a foggy valley is not a good idea to base 10 aircraft.

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 24 Dec 2006, 18:26

They only love Charleroi because it's close enough to brussels to be called brussels south. That's the only reason.

LGG is in all aspect a better choice, but LGG is already a great sucesss for cargo flights, they had to give some stuff to charleroi

That's the walloon politics : everything you give to liege, you have to give to charleroi, and that's very stupid because liege is of course a much more important city in all aspect exept the size (equivalent to charleroi).

Cartman · Post by **Cartman** » 24 Dec 2006, 19:51

Spokesman of CRL announced on VRT radionews that airport will be closed tomorrow. They hope to resume operations tuesday morning.

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 24 Dec 2006, 19:58

Atlantis wrote: And CRL is one of the worst ever planned airport, build in a valley.

CRL is not in a valley - it's clear you have never been to that airport.
I hear LHR also has had some problem with fog lately...

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 24 Dec 2006, 20:06

an-148 wrote:
The REAL question is effectively, like already said before:
why? why don't they definetely fly to LGG:

Because Liège is much less central, much farther away from Brussels, for example.
The real question is : why is CRL not yet cat III ?
I heard on RTL-TVi to-night cat III may be put in two years from now. The airport manager argued that only 1 % of the flights (on a yearly basis) are cancelled because of the fog at Gosselies... That makes nevertheless quite a number of flights, and quite a few passengers.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 25 Dec 2006, 00:41

Ryanair tells pax that their flight is cancelled and that they will get a refund.

This is illegal: Regulation (EC) 261/2004 from the European Union states that it is the passenger who has the right to decide what he wants: refund or another flight at the earliest opportunity.

Article 8 (valid in case of a cancellation because of the weather) clearly states: " ...Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between..."

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 61:EN:HTML

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 25 Dec 2006, 01:34

airazurxtror wrote:
Atlantis wrote: And CRL is one of the worst ever planned airport, build in a valley.
CRL is not in a valley - it's clear you have never been to that airport.
I hear LHR also has had some problem with fog lately...

I was many times at CRL to cut off some people and its build in a valley, thats clear when you drive to and from the airport.

@Jense,

I realy know that some airlines, not Ryanair only, fly to CRL because its much cheaper then other airlines. But I think you don't understood my question.
If an airport with Cat I is closed many times a year only due to fog then I have my questions about that. And then we have the discussion that some members stated here in this topic. Money.

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Dec 2006, 10:15

LX-LGX wrote:the passenger who has the right to decide what he wants: refund or another flight at the earliest opportunity.

Yes, but since all the flights are fully booked, the earliest opportunity might be days away, so all passengers ask for a refund.

744rules · Post by **744rules** » 25 Dec 2006, 10:24

stevie wrote:Maybe it is cheaper for the airline than BRU or Liege ...

I should look it up, but I think landing charges at regional airports are only half of the charges at BRU. That's why companies such as FR will rather divert to LGG in stead of BRU.

I don't to start another bashing topic, but in the end .............. you get for what you pay.

BrusselsAirlines · Post by **BrusselsAirlines** » 25 Dec 2006, 10:40

CATIII is no issue as FR do not train up to CATIII standards - at least it used to be like that some time ago...

I think it's really a shame that they sent out their planes empty with the pax waiting for their acft some 60km's more south and without having any clue...

The real Ryanair...

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 25 Dec 2006, 10:48

Atlantis wrote:
I was many times at CRL to cut off some people and its build in a valley, thats clear when you drive to and from the airport.

It's not important, there can be fog anywhere, even on the summit of a mountain, but as a matter of fact, CRL is definitely not in a valley; the access roads may go slightly up and down, but when you are on the runway, you see there is nothing higher all around.
The valley of the river Sambre is 7O metres lower, to the west of the airport.

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 25 Dec 2006, 11:45

@Atlantis:

no, i dont think money is the reason. LGG is as cheap as CRL, but as said before, it's not close enough to brussels to be called brussels south. That's the basic thinking because brussels is 40min away by bus from charleroi or 40min away by high speed train from liege... it looks like they didnt think far enough.

@BrusselsAirlines: They did land in LGG and it was very foogy too. Yeah, it's a shame that the planes are capable of doing everything, they just need a bus transfert between LGG and CRL. Every year, we talk about that, and every year, i'm chocked that they dont use that opportunity.

(Does anybody knows if the ryanair planes are still in liege or all moved away empty ?)