Brussels Airlines Avro RJ100 flaps problems

[jan_olieslagers]

No comment, of course. What else would you expect? Old-style airlines do not comment, unless they must. Only the silly youngsters are aware of media coverage and its worth. And yes, in spite of failing again and again, this remains an old-style airline. To good reason, perhaps; time will show.

[cnc]

so what would the "new-style" airlines say? Hey at least our engines didn't explode?
no comment is the best option in this case

[LJ]

so what would the "new-style" airlines say? Hey at least our engines didn't explode?
no comment is the best option in this case

A well run customer oriented airline would first excuse and second provide a credible explanation as to why they have this problem for the 5th time in less than three weeks on two aircraft and finally mentions that it will do its best to avoid these problems in future. Saying nothing is as worse as lying. SN must be lucky that the media has bigger things than this, but SN is p;laying with the odds here. If journalists start making this big news, you're too late. At present SN can at least control this situation (which isn't a good PR thing).

[hbervoets]

Last evening 21 nov 2010 : I was watching my SBS-1 and listening to 118.25 MHz :
OO-DWI on approach to Brussels RWY 02 aborted the approach (leaving the sequence to the left and climbing to 4000 ft) and requesting long glide (at least 15 nm).
This was monitored on my SBS-1 and via 118.25 MHz. time between 21:35 and 21:55 Z
During the final approach the crew requested assistance from the fire brigade and a full stop on the taxiway alfa 2 for inspection followed by the fire trucks from the beginning of RWY 02.
Both runways 02 and 07R were inspected afterwards for debris... could have been breaking or overheating issues in the brakes.
Don't know i the plane came empty from Warsaw or not.
I guess the machine will have a much closer look at now.

[Desert Rat]

As we say in aviation, never two without three! It's just a sign that winter is coming. I'm pretty sure that a reminder will be sent to the flight crew and maintenance and that this type of 'incident' will reduce again...

Edit: Same aircraft!

Your famous saying is slightly becoming ...never Five without Six !!!

[tolipanebas]

A well run customer oriented airline would first excuse and second provide a credible explanation as to why they have this problem for the 5th time in less than three weeks on two aircraft and finally mentions that it will do its best to avoid these problems in future. Saying nothing is as worse as lying. SN must be lucky that the media has bigger things than this, but SN is p;laying with the odds here. If journalists start making this big news, you're too late. At present SN can at least control this situation (which isn't a good PR thing).

Oh dear...

There really is no explanation to be given really: It might come as a shock to you, but things like these are happening at every airline, all throughout the year: whether it's some tedious flap related problem difficult to solve with one quick fix like we're experiencing right here, a nasty electrical issue hard to isolate like on the grounded 787, or any other deficiency of which the root cause isn't easily deterimined (the A380), the only way to solve it is to do go step by step, fixing or replacing ONE ELEMENT in an often very long and complex chain which could all be causing the problem and then see if it has solved the problem. You start off with the one element which is known to have been causing issues in the past and often you're right on from the first time, but sometimes you don't and then it can take quite a while before you have found the root cause. That's how it has always been and how it still goes really.

Sadly, nowadays, pax all have a phone with wireless internet and the news of an AoG is all over the place even before the first mechanic has made it to the outstation, while overzealous reporters are going to do their own trend monitoring, insisting on a quick fix right away.

Instant solutions seems to be the mantra of this age, BTW: whenever Joe Average learns about a developing problem, he expects those responsible to have a solution since yesterday already. Floodings in some areas of Flanders? Why didn't our government foresee this years ago? Roadworks taking longer than planned? How come this wasn't planned in at the start? etc...

IMHO, SN is right in not communicating explicitly on these non-events really. They are part of aviation and are dealt with in a perfectly normal way by them. There's really no need to keep feeding the trolls...

If you like sensation, you can always join airliners.net. Today, the topics under discussion are:
- DL plane returns to JFK due to engine fire
- QF 747 grounded in SIN due to hydraulic leak
- QF A380 fleet grounding due to engine oil leak
- 787 test plane evacuated due smoke
- accident at BHX
(no kidding)

[sn26567]

tolipanebas is right: one incident somewhere with one aircraft of a specific airline, and everybody is closely watching what is happening with the same type of aircraft or at the same airline.

Incidents are occurring daily, but they are not endangering anyone. As an example, 3 days ago there was a sudden decompression on a SWISS Avro RJ100. Did you hear of it? It didn't make the headlines, and in my view it is more important than a flap problem.

The Aviation Herald is not, and cannot be, informed of every incident in the world and has to rely on informers. There are apparently more informers at SN or QF than at, say, LX or LH.

Hence, every bit of information should be put in perspective. Let the airlines do their job. If they spot something that can put their pax at danger, there is no doubt that they will take the appropriate measures.

[earthman]

the reason Ferrari's and other sports cars have Carbon brakes is because of massive weight savings and increased durability in the braking power.

The weight reduction by itself is not significant for a car. However, the reduction of the unsprung mass is important (after all, the brake discs are attached to the wheels), as it allows the wheels to more closely follow the contours of the road, giving more (constant) grip.

[DeltaWiskey]

As an example, 3 days ago there was a sudden decompression on a SWISS Avro RJ100. Did you hear of it? It didn't make the headlines, and in my view it is more important than a flap problem.

I think they are equally important.

But 5 flap issues in 3 weeks is way worse than one decompression (imo), I really hope SN solves this as soon as possible. These issues should not occur and certainly not that frequently.
The flap issue is not that big of a deal on the avro, but I really don't want to encounter one in low visibility approaches on short runways...

[b.lufthansa]

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1901/reisnieuw ... ment.dhtml

new failure occured this morning towards Budapest

2 belated aircrafts grounded until further notice

[Polaris]

I just saw the OO-DWI taxi to the SN maintenance hangar.
It's one of the two aircraft with flap issues...

[tolipanebas]

I really hope SN solves this as soon as possible. These issues should not occur and certainly not that frequently.

Well they are definitely working on it.

One event and you simply grease the mechanism, a few events in a row and you start investigating by logical deduction, first focussing on what is deemed the most probably cause and going from there.
You can't tackle all possible causes at once either, because they the problem might be solved all right, but you don't know what it was and all the pieces removed will make their way back onto another plane, inducing further problems there. The aim is not only to solve, but also to prevent it from happening in the future and on the rest of the fleet, that's what's aviation is all about.
FWIW, It could just be some minute water ingestion somewhere through a seal where it hasn't happened before and those things do take some time to figure out as they are definitely not the first focal point of any mechanic when faced with stuck flaps.

Rather than saying SN aren't doing their job correctly or aren't taking things seriously, I'd say they are, hence them following the standard routines of trouble shooting iso jumping to conclusions without knowing what is the root cause.

The flap issue is not that big of a deal on the avro, but I really don't want to encounter one in low visibility approaches on short runways...

Well, you can always divert, you know...

I think that why they diverted from VNO to WAW for instance: better conditions and longer RWY there.

[DeltaWiskey]

I know they are working on it, and it might not be that clear in my message but I meant to stress 'as soon as possible'. I never meant to say they aren't working on the problem, just that they must act before something worse happens. They definitely did act as they are now grounding 2 aircraft, a good sign to me.

And 'solving the problem' of course includes 'preventing it from happening in the future'.

[Boeing767copilot]

Two SN Avro aircraft grounded now:

http://demorgen.be/dm/nl/989/Binnenland ... ment.dhtml

[FlightMate]

Does the problem arise every time the aircraft is released for flight? Or is it plain random?

Because if it happens on the first flight after the aircraft is signed off, I'd rather have a test flight before accepting to fly such aircraft.

[DeltaWiskey]

Does someone have the regs of all aircraft involved from 1 to 6-7-8? I lost count... :s

[sn26567]

Two SN Avro aircraft grounded now

Story in The Aviation Herald:

Incident: Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Budapest on Nov 22nd 2010, flaps failure

A Brussels Airlines Avro RJ-100, registration OO-DWD performing flight SN-2823 from Bussels (Belgium) to Budapest (Hungary) with 57 passengers and 5 crew, could not deploy its landing flaps while on approach to Budapest. The crew aborted the approach, entered a holding for about 30 minutes before commencing the final approach to Budapest's runway 13L at some higher than normal speed.

The aircraft had already suffered flaps trouble recently, see: Incident: Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Bologna on Nov 18th 2010, flaps problem and Incident: Brussels Airlines RJ1H at Gothenburg on Nov 16th 2010, flaps problem.

Radar tracks suggest, the airplane may have suffered another flaps failure in Vienna (Austria) on Nov 21st 2010, the airplane did not perform the scheduled return flight but a ferry flight SN-9902 departing Vienna more than 5 hours after landing.

The airline said on Nov 22nd, the two Avros suffering from repeated flaps failures, OO-DWD and OO-DWI, have been removed from service following the incident in Budapest.

[pjms21]

Just saw that OO-DWI is back in service after positive testflight I guess. No sign of DWD yet...

[dsa330]

Just saw that OO-DWI is back in service after positive testflight I guess. No sign of DWD yet...

still in the hangar i taught i saw it parked in front of it earlyer today.

[jdw]

apparently they didn't find the problem new flap problem with OO-DWI
link: http://www.avherald.com/h?article=433ed922&opt=0