Hi all,
I'm disgusted with the intervention of the police on Sunday around 11am.
Me, Louise, Trisha, Ray and Tony (all luchtzak.be members) were spotting with about 10-15 other people at the small hill besides the refugee centre, when suddenly the police showed up.
Somebody had called them apparently because we formed a 'security risk'.
I quote the police officer his explanation for the fact that we had to go away:
x we can be terrorists who want to blow up the fuel tanks
x we can help the asyllum seekers climbing over the fence to help them escape
Do the security people from BIAC and the Police actually have a sense of reality?
Dearest police: if I really want to blow up the fuel tanks, I can shoot my rocket from 20 different places, if not 50 different places around the airport. So chasing the 'terrorists' away to another place won't help to increase the security.
And if I want to help asyllum seekers with escaping from 127bis, I can do it as well in a rodeo style: drive with a 4x4 jeep at high speed through the fence, load as much people into my 4x4, and before anybody realizes what's happening, I'm already speeding away to the highway.
So please: get some common sense, and follow the example of the police in Manchester. Those people USE the planespotters: there are signs just everywhere with a phonenumber to the police. Every suspicious movement has to be reported to the police, so that the security officers can check it out.
This is the BEST solution for the BEST security, since most spotters do have binoculars (we keep an overview of the airport all the time, so we see it if somebody climbs over a fence somewhere).
The cooperation between police and spotters seems to go very well in Manchester, it's a pity that something like this is impossible at BRU.
When I see something strange at BRU, I have to call the 101. They will connect me with the police of Zaventem. I have to tell my story to the police of Zaventem who will warn BIAC. My story must be explained to the airport police of BIAC. Only at this point, an intervention can start. Why not giving us a direct number, which makes immediate intervention possible?
If ELAL comes in, and I see somebody with a gun near the 25L, the plane will have landed already before the airport police will be aware of what's happening.
It's only in the advantage of BIAC...
Let's hope that this example of paranoia is an exception, and will not become the standard procedure when there are again 'terrorists' standing near 127 (which is actually already happening for years and years, and people will keep on standing there in the future too).
Regards
Frederic
Police intervention while spotting in BRU, Sunday 12/09/'04
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Sabena_690
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Jense
Happens quite much in BRU...
Was on the 127BIS once with my dad in the summer, some years ago... I was 14 years old and we were spotting on a sunny afternoon when suddenly... the police showed up. "Heeeeee" screamed a police men "come of that hill and leave immedeatly"... My dad hadn't muchto say to that young stupid 'jeanke', so we went home...
Procedure: Step 1: BIAC security saw spotters Step 2: BIAC security contacts local police Step 3: local police show up and spotting-fun is over.
I don't think we can do much on that...
greettzzz
Was on the 127BIS once with my dad in the summer, some years ago... I was 14 years old and we were spotting on a sunny afternoon when suddenly... the police showed up. "Heeeeee" screamed a police men "come of that hill and leave immedeatly"... My dad hadn't muchto say to that young stupid 'jeanke', so we went home...
Procedure: Step 1: BIAC security saw spotters Step 2: BIAC security contacts local police Step 3: local police show up and spotting-fun is over.
I don't think we can do much on that...
greettzzz
Brussels has always been spotter unfriendly, because of police overreacting. I remember several occasions when the police scared off spotters (and also visitors) from the spotting location. Especially when in group, one is quickly suspected!
For 10 or more years ago it was even worse, when police , and army where patroling around the airport! The army was a real pain in th a**, always scaring off people ...
I think we will have to live with it..
For 10 or more years ago it was even worse, when police , and army where patroling around the airport! The army was a real pain in th a**, always scaring off people ...
I think we will have to live with it..
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Robin_Bamps
Hi Fred,
Regards, Robin Bamps.
I know what you're feeling. Last year I was once send away from Abelag by a DHL employee. I was simply standing at the parking (not even next to the fence). The guy told me that I possibly was a terrorist and that I wanted to break into the airport territory (read: climb over the fence)...I quote the police officer his explanation for the fact that we had to go away:
x we can be terrorists who want to blow up the fuel tanks
x we can help the asyllum seekers climbing over the fence to help them escape
Regards, Robin Bamps.
by taking nice pic's that really sucks bigtime... They could make such a nice area overthere for spotters but they just don't want to...
Imagine BIAC puts a "frietkot" there or an icecream car or whatever, they could make some nice extra money which they could use to increase airport security... Or am I being naive?
Does this happen a lot nowadays?
I only got sent away once by police but that was my own fault. Remember when they were building the big walls behind the church in Steenokkerzeel? Me and a friend got behind those works and placed ourselves next to the fence on a nice hill right next to the taxiway. Amazing view overthere by the way...
Needless to say people could see us from the tower and about 20 minutes later we were sent away and the fun was over... But like I said that was our own fault...
Imagine BIAC puts a "frietkot" there or an icecream car or whatever, they could make some nice extra money which they could use to increase airport security... Or am I being naive?
Does this happen a lot nowadays?
I only got sent away once by police but that was my own fault. Remember when they were building the big walls behind the church in Steenokkerzeel? Me and a friend got behind those works and placed ourselves next to the fence on a nice hill right next to the taxiway. Amazing view overthere by the way...
Needless to say people could see us from the tower and about 20 minutes later we were sent away and the fun was over... But like I said that was our own fault...
Frederic,
You are absolutely right. Manchester is a very nice example of cooperation, but it is probably an exception. Why don't you write to BIAC to make your suggestion?
You are absolutely right. Manchester is a very nice example of cooperation, but it is probably an exception. Why don't you write to BIAC to make your suggestion?
Rutger, that is over-reaction. These people are doing their job as they are told. The culprits are elsewhere. As a citizen, you have the right to protest, but not to hate.Airbus_fan wrote:I hate them
Last edited by sn26567 on 15 Sep 2004, 17:48, edited 1 time in total.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
As I already mentioned in another topic, it's really sad that they do this Up to know I was never chased away and I hope it won't happen.
I totally agree with you about the Manchester issue. POlice and airport security should use the spotters in their favour instead of chasing them. Spotters know the airport very well, and can easily see if something is going on at one of the sposts. I agree that it is not possible to hire a policemen that stands at each spot around the airport, so let the spotters do that work.
Chris
Up to know I was never chased away and I hope it won't happen.I totally agree with you about the Manchester issue. POlice and airport security should use the spotters in their favour instead of chasing them. Spotters know the airport very well, and can easily see if something is going on at one of the sposts. I agree that it is not possible to hire a policemen that stands at each spot around the airport, so let the spotters do that work.
Chris
I've have never experienced something like this when I was spotting at BRU. It sad to hear the police sent away the spotters.
But I think the main reason was the group of about 10-15 people at the hill near the refugee camp. It won't be the first time some idiots like to protest over there, so this "sent-away" action was a security measurment, the security is precautious since 9/11, also at French airports and maybe since that VTM-thing
. But I do believe if you were only with 5 people nothing would have happened.
At the watertower there are way more than 15 persons at a sunny day, but there's no "real" danger (read no BIS127), the same can be said about the sandhill, every sunday there are some motorcrossers over there and nothing has happened so far.
I believe you were at wrong place at the wrong time....
But it is true, it's sad ... But that's life isn't
Regards
Raymond
But I think the main reason was the group of about 10-15 people at the hill near the refugee camp. It won't be the first time some idiots like to protest over there, so this "sent-away" action was a security measurment, the security is precautious since 9/11, also at French airports and maybe since that VTM-thing
. But I do believe if you were only with 5 people nothing would have happened.At the watertower there are way more than 15 persons at a sunny day, but there's no "real" danger (read no BIS127), the same can be said about the sandhill, every sunday there are some motorcrossers over there and nothing has happened so far.
I believe you were at wrong place at the wrong time....
But it is true, it's sad ... But that's life isn't
Regards
Raymond
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Comet
- Posts: 6481
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I agree with Frederic's post, although I didn't know what the police guy was saying when I found out I think it was unfair. Spotters can be the eyes and ears for airport security and as such should be encouraged. When we visited 25L to spot last year, the only police complaint was about a badly parked car causing an obstruction, nothing else!
The police also stopped me getting my first Air Dolomiti aircraft, I shall have to hope I see one in BRU tomorrow. The attitude to spotters is indeed much better in England.
The police also stopped me getting my first Air Dolomiti aircraft, I shall have to hope I see one in BRU tomorrow. The attitude to spotters is indeed much better in England.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
Re: Police intervention while spotting in BRU, Sunday 12/09/
Maybe this can help:Sabena_690 wrote: Why not giving us a direct number, which makes immediate intervention possible?
Frederic
Airportinspection: 02/753.69.00
Airport police: 02/753.70.00
Is there nobody of the luchtzak community working at the airport and who knows somebody of the airportinspection or security, to start a kind of project to use spotters as a discrete source to counter possible trouble?
I think if somebody knows the right person we could come to the Manchester situation even in Belgium.
I can be wrong, but I heared something about the London Police delivering "an official spotters-pass" to the local spotters, at two conditions. First that they will contact a special phone number when they remark suspect persons/situations, and secondly they keep an eye on people to keep the place clean.
In return they are allowed to do their spotting.
May that day arrive soon here in Belgium
I think if somebody knows the right person we could come to the Manchester situation even in Belgium.
I can be wrong, but I heared something about the London Police delivering "an official spotters-pass" to the local spotters, at two conditions. First that they will contact a special phone number when they remark suspect persons/situations, and secondly they keep an eye on people to keep the place clean.
In return they are allowed to do their spotting.
May that day arrive soon here in Belgium
I totally agree with you Rago.
When I went to the refugee center on the 09/09 (the last time) I saw a lot of trash lying around in the grass. By trash I mean: Several empty beer cans, Water bottles, papers, etc... .
I find it really disgusting when people do that, and if the spotters continue to act like that, we can be sure that the police or airport security will not allow us to spot at those locations !!!!
Greetz
Chris
Keeping the place clean is unfortunately another issue in BRU.Rago wrote: First that they will contact a special phone number when they remark suspect persons/situations, and secondly they keep an eye on people to keep the place clean.
When I went to the refugee center on the 09/09 (the last time) I saw a lot of trash lying around in the grass. By trash I mean: Several empty beer cans, Water bottles, papers, etc... .
I find it really disgusting when people do that, and if the spotters continue to act like that, we can be sure that the police or airport security will not allow us to spot at those locations !!!!
Greetz
Chris
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Tommypilot
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100% agree with Fred and the others. Why bothering people who are so passionated about and with aviation?
You should be happy that people like us exist. We give aviation some life with our passion and intrests. Is that egal to terrorism? I think those are people who take some lifes away...
What is a world without freedom for passions, leisure and intrests? Is that a capable world to live with?
We are not terrorists...on the contrary...we are a part of those who DID make flying/aviation livable again!
Kind regards,
You should be happy that people like us exist. We give aviation some life with our passion and intrests. Is that egal to terrorism? I think those are people who take some lifes away...
What is a world without freedom for passions, leisure and intrests? Is that a capable world to live with?
We are not terrorists...on the contrary...we are a part of those who DID make flying/aviation livable again!
Kind regards,
Tommy
The word "impossible" is not in my dictionary! - Napoleon Bonaparte
The word "impossible" is not in my dictionary! - Napoleon Bonaparte
Why not showing our goodwill by doing something special / positive for the airport / BIAC in return?
Avro talked about the trash laying all around on some spotting places. I've seen it too last week, and I find it very hard to see. Hope people who leave their garbage are not the spotters.
But, maybe (it's an old idea which I did some times when I was a kid with my class / youth organizations / ...) we can all come together and clean it up. We invite some people to show that we really mean it. It could be a first step...
Or am I again too naive? :-s
About the sending away, I can agree with you all. Me, I've been sent away only one time (long time ago) while standing at the 02 (when destruction workers arrived when they destroyed that house that was right under the approach).
Avro talked about the trash laying all around on some spotting places. I've seen it too last week, and I find it very hard to see. Hope people who leave their garbage are not the spotters.
But, maybe (it's an old idea which I did some times when I was a kid with my class / youth organizations / ...) we can all come together and clean it up. We invite some people to show that we really mean it. It could be a first step...
Or am I again too naive? :-s
About the sending away, I can agree with you all. Me, I've been sent away only one time (long time ago) while standing at the 02 (when destruction workers arrived when they destroyed that house that was right under the approach).
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Established02
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: 16 Oct 2002, 00:00
But, maybe (it's an old idea which I did some times when I was a kid with my class / youth organizations / ...) we can all come together and clean it up. We invite some people to show that we really mean it. It could be a first step...
Glider, this is a very good idea, although I don't know if the amount of garbage around would really justify a mobilisation of dozens of volunteers. But as a PR stunt it would definitely be good to do it as a group. Looks much better in front of the TV1/VTM/KETNET camera's. 8) No seriously, even if BIAC would not support the initiative, then still we should be collectively concerned about the cleanliness of the spotters areas.
If something is set up, then I'm willing to come and give a hand (together with my 3,5 year old daughter).
We can all bring some used shopping bags (from Carrefour 8) ) to collect the garbage individually and perhaps BIAC can provide a little container to dump all the bags in. It would get a bit complicated if we would need to sort out the paper and the PMD stuff from the other trash.
Regards,
Established02
Glider, this is a very good idea, although I don't know if the amount of garbage around would really justify a mobilisation of dozens of volunteers. But as a PR stunt it would definitely be good to do it as a group. Looks much better in front of the TV1/VTM/KETNET camera's. 8) No seriously, even if BIAC would not support the initiative, then still we should be collectively concerned about the cleanliness of the spotters areas.
If something is set up, then I'm willing to come and give a hand (together with my 3,5 year old daughter).
We can all bring some used shopping bags (from Carrefour 8) ) to collect the garbage individually and perhaps BIAC can provide a little container to dump all the bags in. It would get a bit complicated if we would need to sort out the paper and the PMD stuff from the other trash.
Regards,
Established02
I been thinking about this and the more I think about the more I like the idea...
I remember the red cross youth did some action like that in my village. Everywhere they cleaned the garbage they put some signs on a wooden pole stating "cleaned for you by the red cross of Muizen, now keep it clean" We could do something like that too.
We would need one spokesperson who can explain to the press why we do this. To show that we are of good will and that we are willing to help, like in Manchester...
I remember the red cross youth did some action like that in my village. Everywhere they cleaned the garbage they put some signs on a wooden pole stating "cleaned for you by the red cross of Muizen, now keep it clean" We could do something like that too.
We would need one spokesperson who can explain to the press why we do this. To show that we are of good will and that we are willing to help, like in Manchester...